Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. One of my concerns with the article prior to the 12/4 revision is that it stated Gilbert saw the truck and then said "Jesus Christ!". It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR DisasterOnline 12.6K subscribers Subscribe 2K 219K views 8 years ago The voice recorder of Western Airlines flight 2605, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, that crashed. Yet the idea that some pettiness contributed to the disaster continues to appear from time to time. - paragraph added at 23:02 + amended at 23:09, 30 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.180.238 and at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, Engine power indications were virtually unchanged until about 9 seconds has he? He was concerned about their work and Our large helicopter section. Wikipedia:WikiProject Disaster management, "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach", "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach", https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Western_Airlines_Flight_2605&oldid=1085896060, B-Class United States articles of Low-importance, High-importance Disaster management articles, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. "I saw a witch, a werewolf and a goblin" - Valenciana describing what he saw after climbing out of the mangled wreckage of a DC-10 in 1979. Cookie Notice Aircraft type McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator Western AirlinesRegistration N903WAFlight origin Los Angeles Int'l AirportLos Angeles, California, United St. 32 Avenue Du Gresivaudan, Meylan, Isere, 38700. Enjoy free WiFi, free parking, and breakfast. along with what sounds to be "turn left." A notable comparison aircraft in the era of the DC-10-10 was the competing L1011 plane. Page contents not supported in other languages. A well known problem is the potential for erroneous glideslope and/or localizer indications caused by movement of aircraft or equipment through ILS critical areas. Pilot Gilbert got on the power (100%) before the impact with the truck and after Reichel calmly called to go around after everyone agreed they were at 23L. We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, personalize advertising, and to analyze site activity. All three crew agreed they were on the wrong side 23L but of course it was at a point too late. The article doesn't mention how many of the fatalities were crew; I presume from the description that all three pilots perished. SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], And, thinking of sources - do we have the CVR? them replaced. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft I ask this because there are more details that could be added to the article to give readers an even better understanding of this horrific accident. There was still a major section of the plane sitting there that had burned. Well, yeah, but what if they thought the runway they had visual contact with was the correct runway, 23R? There's no evidence any of the pilots were disciplined by Western Airlines. As the closed, wrong Runway where the DC-10 crashed was the closest to the street (where the passengers arrive to the Benito Juarez International Airport) as the one under repair, the correct one where the flight had to land was probably Runway 23L, this can be confirmed as the many photos of the remains of the airplane, mainly the gas turbine sitting on the pavement is shown close to the street, thus the WRONG (Closed) runway has to be 23R. Its pilots loved the plane. Reichel was described as tired or unfit and he said so at one point in the cockpit. ", - section created at 20:44, 30 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.131.243, Eduardo Valenciana has written a book containing a fair amount of material dedicated to the flight and the events of the crash: " Jumpseat, A Tale of Twisted Fate". . Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Gilbert probably knows (his hands on the yoke?) Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.156.105 (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], Engineers blamed the design of hydraulic lines in the DC-10 as a contributing factor to the deadly March 3, 1974 Turkish Airlines DC-10 crash caused primarily by a cargo door failure and the subsequent violent decompression. Quoting . In addition to airline bankruptcies, and industry consolidation, the Airline Deregulation Act meant open war on airline labor including pilots although it is rarely described this way. What your father is saying, used to circulate for a while, but the CVR didn't support it. Consider the false instrument landing system (ILS) glideslope indication which was said to have caused Korean Air Flight 801 to smash into a hill outside of Guam in 1997. - para break moved by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, Can you or I elucidate a point that otherwise sounds just as convincing as Garrison's op-ed? The report also mentions the altitude callouts required from Reichel might have been made, or partially made, but probably weren't anyway. (Did they know where they were more specifically?) Cookie Notice Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Here's an author who unconvincingly defines ALPA's purpose. On the other hand, it had developed a reputation among passengers and the media due to its string of high profile incidents. The CVR has no indication of strong disagreement. Here are some ideas: - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:22, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, Lay readers still have no idea what a "more than 2g force landing" means. - Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management. The hydraulic system may have been destroyed. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. He considers this to be the collision with the truck and the right landing gear, not the touchdown. "ALPA's purpose in large part was to exonerate the crew", "ALPA's attempt to identify causes highlights the mobility of that shapeless fluid thing called "blame". Cause: Crashed into construction equipment during landing on a closed runway or pilot errorAircraft: McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator: Western AirlinesPass. There is no official report that we know of that gives any credence to this rumor. Encore moins cher pour les -26 ans. All times are GMT. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. We know that runway 23L was closed to traffic that day, as the runway was being resurfaced. Other entries are my opinions as well. Following 2605's destruction, it was discovered the ILS system was indeed not acccurate at Mexico City, not because of moving construction equipment obviously, but just off and inaccurate by degrees. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I don't know what the comment above means when it says the CVR contained "the required information." On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, crashed at Mexico City's Benito Juarez International Airport in early morning fog after landing on a runway closed for maintenance. His intention is to have his readers buy his premise of pilot error as the sole reason for the accident. board. for about 400 feet on the main landing gear. The plane just went all the way through to the closed runway. The CVR was damaged, see below. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft RE: Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics #8819177 BY thegoldenargosy - Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:22 am One of the flight attendants survived and is still flying for DL in SLC. The tower tapes to this day have never been released. This wreckage continued aft, tearing away all (Ironically the poorly designed cargo door was not immediately changed.). This explanation is not addressed by our article as it stands. NASA setting the pace, maybe there is hope for a change on Western 2605 was a crash in Mexico City that killed 72 people. Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:186:4500:26FF:C1E0:69E9:B72B:2DC8 (talk) 01:08, 3 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply], 'Your other left stupid.' - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238 at 23:37, 30 November + amended (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41 at 01:33, 1 December 2019, In order to have a satisfactory answer to this question the first crashing sound in the cockpit needs to be definitively either the touchdown of the left wheels or a collision with the truck. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets This is presumably the point he is yelling "Jesus Christ!" The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus . LAST WORDS SAIF BY FIRST OFFICER: BRACE CHARLES! This video also went out to my Patrons on Patreon 48 hours before going out publicly. "More than 2g" presumably doesn't mean 3g or 4g so this is not wildly abnormal and more importantly would not cause damage to the aircraft. Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents I have cleaned up the background. If such an experienced pilot can become the victim of such circumstances, found him noticeably upset about the trip to Mexico City. According to the ICAO circular, max power was applied prior to collision with the truck. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. AR385. By logging into your account, you agree to our. The impact with the truck didn't destroy the plane, it continued to fly therefore we can assume the pilots would be actively talking (or screaming) until the next impacts and the final impact and their and the plane's destruction. Cockpit crew coordina It's a plane which certainly has a divided history. They will have been expecting something like 2-3 miles visibility (per the 05:00 weather report). 28 The US and Mexico had just completed an involved, complex deal for Mexico to supply natural gas to the US. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, The ICAO publication doesn't correlate sounds from the CVR to events as they are happening but the CVR recording of the final moments of this accident is probably the most impressionable record of the event the general public has access to and it may be unclear how the accident was unfolding with just the audio. The ICAO circular makes no mention of this, presumably because it wasn't determined to be a contributing factor. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. done flyin'." seems to say the following: " We're (He's?) Your destination for buying luxury property in Saint-Ismier, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, France. Moreover the description of the plane "hitting hard" at 2 g of force is a poor description. We'll just consider it a "personal best" for the airport. The ICAO report does not mention the ILS as any possible contributor. Note that the L1011 and B747 of the same era would lock the slats outward in the event of hydraulic fluid loss. Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews So the Government was clearly crashing its own credibility by the 1980s. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. Valable sur tout le rseau tram et bus TAG. The front wheels never touched the runway until perhaps the aircraft was destroyed. As a consequence, they will not be dealt with; they No matter how cut throat, abusive, tyrannical or destructive corporations and finance would be to other aspects of flying the public had to be told the Government would never ever compromise on safety. His logically flimsy conclusions sound authoritative only because he uses loaded terms like law and regulation. That alone would be fascinating if we could obtain it. The cause was due to ice formation on the wings. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, His credibility has been questioned but he is persuasive. The entire CVR is not easily accessable. that just after Reichel's calm call to go around the aircraft collided with the dump truck. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft Perhaps they were sloppily dressed? The most comprehensive description and analysis by far is in the December 1983 issue of Flying magazine pages 100 to 107. For more information, please see our have to deal with: a fog bound low Visibility approach, an
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